Recap of 9/9/19 Meeting

We had hoped to discuss hope but hope eluded us!

We attempted to cover the last part of “faith”; but since it was related to “works,” we got into Protestant belief differences, which lasted 45 minutes.

• Generally, Protestants consider their “born again” date the day they claim that Jesus Christ is their Savior.

• Catholics born again date is their baptism. That Jesus Christ died on the cross for us and opened the gates of heaven is part of our baptism profession. Without what God did for us through Jesus Christ, there would be no baptism, no Christianity, no heaven.

• Most Protestants say “faith only” is need for salvation. Faith-only is their “Justification” (which is needed to enter heaven). They believe good works are important but not essential to their salvation.

• Catholics have always taught that Justification is a life journey. It is first of all made possible by Jesus Christ; but then we are called to participate with the HS throughout this life and do good works as Jesus instructed and showed us. We also continue to receive various graces from God to assist us in our journey via our relationship with the Holy Spirit, the sacraments, prayer, and good works.

Many Protestants don’t think confession to a priest is necessary. They feel Jesus' death on the cross was sufficient to wipe out all our sins and if they do want to confess they can go to God directly. The Catholic Church agrees that what Jesus did on the cross was sufficient, but He also gave us free will and we need to complete our end of the bargain by seeking the forgiveness he won for us whenever we sin. As for the sacrament itself, in Jesus’ first Resurrection appearance in the upper room, he gives this authority to his Apostles:

"Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." John 20:21-23

How could they forgive sins if they were not confessed to them? They couldn’t. This authority comes through the gift of the Holy Spirit which precedes Jesus' statement.

The other question asked is can we be forgiven directly from God? Yes, we can for smaller sins. However, that is easier said than done. Most people don’t conduct a proper mental apology or proper request for forgiveness. Just thinking about it doesn’t qualify. It’s kind of like thinking you are sorry for some selfish act you committed versus actually humbling yourself and telling the person offended that you are sorry. Even the Jews in the OT practiced telling others their sins and the priests would offer sacrifices to atone for their forgiveness. The sacrifices are no longer necessary because Jesus' sacrifice was for all time, but the principle has not changed. Just like any sincere apology, thinking about doesn’t make it nearly as real as having to humbly articulate it. All that said, mortal sins cannot be removed without the act of Confession, and mortal sins can keep you from heaven; so we should not take this lightly.

The comment was made that Protestants think that Catholics worship Mary and the saints.

We all know that isn’t true and never was. We seek their intercession just as we would ask anyone to pray for us. However, Mary and the saints’ proximity to God kind of makes them better intercessors.

Someone asked about the authority for the Church/the Pope to teach and interpret scripture. It's references several places but mainly articulated here:

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah... And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16:17-19

It seems logical that if you have a million people who are all authorized to interpret scripture, you may well have a million interpretations. This lack of scriptural authority may have contributed to the splintering of Protestant denominations (over 30,000 so far). As for the claim that everyone should be able to interpret scripture by themselves, I have been studying the bible for years and find that many, many, many people do not know how to interpret lots of things, such as Jesus saying to hate your family (which we just covered). Also, if you read Acts 8:26-40, there is the scene where an important Ethiopian official is coming to Jerusalem to worship. He is reading Isaiah and can't understand what it means. The Holy Spirit directs the Apostle Philip to go help him interpret it. Obviously, he was successful since afterwards the official asked to be baptized. But it's another example of the fallacy of individual interpretation.

These differences aside, let us remember a) the Church considers us all brothers in Christ, b) we recognize Protestant baptisms, and c) the Church invests significant energy in ecumenism (the effort to unite all Christianity). Therefore, we should always treat them with calm and respect, even if they don't.

Genesis 3-10

We reviewed that when Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden, the angel was instructed to put a rotating sword of fire at Eden’s perimeter preventing them from returning, lest they eat from the Tree of Life and live forever in their fallen state. The fiery sword "represented" the cost of re-entry. Yet re-entry was the only way humans could get to heaven, so now what?

The passion that Jesus would later go through turns out to be his passing through the fiery sword; which enabling humans once again to re-enter Eden. In the process, Jesus had to undo the Fall, which means undoing everything Adam and Eve did. Jesus had to be obedient to the Father; he had to continue to love – including his enemies – throughout the ordeal; and forgive them for what they did to him (“Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do.” Luke 23:34). Adam and Eve used fig leaves to cover themselves, representing their covering up/denying their sins. Jesus had his clothes stripped away while on the cross, representing the covering was no longer needed since sins were being wiped away (“…they divided up his clothes by throwing dice.” Matthew 27:35).

We discussed how Adam & Eve’s first born, Cain, murdered his brother, Abel, because he was jealous that God liked him more. God basically told Cain to stand up straight and act right and he will be fine. Cain responded by killing Abel. God asked Cain what happened to his brother, and Cain responded, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” How bold is that? This also shows that evil had indeed followed Adam and Even into the world. Eve then begot Seth, who replaced Abel as the bloodline that would eventually lead to Noah, then Abraham, King David, and finally Jesus Christ.

We discussed the generations that followed as well as evil that began spreading everywhere - that is, except for the righteous Noah, whom God than tells to build an Ark 440 feet long by 75 feet wide by 45 feet high. The flood lasts 40 days and 40 nights. His three sons, Japheth, Ham, and Shem are said eventually to father the various races of the world.

I reminded everyone that for all events occurring prior to Abraham (2000 BC) we are not required to read literally.

Next week, we will pick back up with Chapter 11: The Tower of Babel, which “occurred” around 2300 BC.

If you think the name for the ancient city of Babylon (in present day Iraq) came from the Tower of Babel, you are probably correct. If you think our word “babel” (as in stop babbling, please!) comes from the Tower of Babel, you would be correct again.

See you next Monday!